Post your comments about Ibsen's Ghosts here if you were assigned as an observer, or if you have ideas that you want to add to discussion. Please post you comment within 24 hours after the discussion, and mention the date of the discussion on which you are commenting.
8 comments:
During the discussion of Ghosts, the class focused mainly on two questions:
1. How did Oswald contract syphilis?
-his father had syphilis and passed it on genetically
-Oswald behaved the same as his father and contracted syphilis from sleeping around
Stacey also brought up an interesting idea. She said that when she was reading the book, she thought that Oswald's disease was actually some sort of religious punishment for his father's sins.
2. Who burned down the orphanage and why?
-Engstrand was drunk and did it on accident
-Engstrand burned it down to guarantee that his daughter would have to come and live with him
-Manders is trying to get back at Mrs. Alving
-Manders couldn't suggest insurance because it would mean he didn't have faith in God
Those were some of the main ideas we discussed.
(Katie Heideman posting)
During our discussion yesterday, August 27th, we discussed a wide range of topics, including:
Who started the fire at the orphanage? A majority of the class concluded Engstrand was in some way responsible for the fire, as he was a liar throughout the play, as well as the orphanage carpenter and the one who suggested the candles at the prayer service.
Does Osvald intend to use the morphine as a method of suicide? Does he ask his mother to help manage his pain or assist him in suicide? We decided the morphine was being saved for the moment Osvald can no longer bear his pain.
What does Ibsen mean when he refers to the "joy of life"? He uses it in reference to Regina, possibly meaning he is envious of her burden-free life. Osvald wants to live through Regina.
Does Regina return Osvald's affections? The class thought she felt no attatchment to Osvald, using him instead as "a way out" of her life of servanthood.
What exactly is Regina's relationship with Engstrand. Is she aware he is not her biological father? When Engstrand offers Regina a job as a prostitute at his home for sailors, is Engstrand drawing a parallel to Regina's mother? No conclusive answer was reached.
Are Manders and Engstrand working together? Many coincidences exist, but we decided the two men have too many competing interests to plan the burning of the orphanage or keeping Regina's heritage a secret.
The discussion wrapped with a comment about judgements throughout the play, especially by Manders. We found it ironic that he, who speaks frequently of not judging others, is the most judgemental character in the play. In connection with those judgements, "whats up with Mrs. Aving's books?" Some thought they were stories of ghosts, Darwinism, witchcraft, or romance novels.
In our smaller group on Aug. 31st we touched on many different topics from Ghosts, but some of the most prominent ideas are:
-Manders and Mrs. Alving are more than just friends
-Engstrand doesn't give into temptation like Manders, but he is selfish
-Ghosts focuses on peoples reputations in a community and how important they are/morals are based on perspective
-We believe that the different translations of the play change some of the interpretations
-"The one that I inherited, the illness-(Points to his forehead and speaks very softly.)-that's seated here."(3 pgs from the end.) But, some of the other books say "that lies here". Does this have a different interpretations?
-Mrs. Alving seems to be over-dramatic, but is she just being rational?
During the discussion today, August 31st, group five discussed:
1. What are the symbolic meanings of the sun/light and darkness in the play?
-the sun and/or light in the play signifies the vivacity of life. Darkness is interpreted as the refusal to experience the world and as a prerequisite, remaining isolated and solitary.
2. What is the significance of Osvald's missing hat?
-it may just be a prop to indicate social station or position and truly isn't important
-it is fundamentally defined as a shield from the sun, and therefore a tool of darkness. Which raises the question, why Osvald would need his hat if it was dark outside?
-it may be significant because throughout the play Osvald is perceived as embodied life-he paints things only pertaining to the joy and vivacity of life(Act 2)but contrarily he carries a tool of darkness.
3. What is the role of ideals and truth in the play?
-ideals and truth are indicated as contrary-Mrs. Alving advocates truth and Manders upholds ideals and inadvertently, ignorance. But the opinionated perspectives of the characters reflect their connection with appearance and social status. Manders regularly worries about his public appearance and therefore ideals are deemed more important than truth.
During our discussion of Ghosts on Friday, our group discussed Ibsen's purpose for inserting the final scene when Oswald begins screaming "the sun, the sun". There were several ways to interpret this passage. i ws under the impression that it was in religious conotation. In the Bible, Jesus Christ is refered to as "the Son". Perhaps as Oswald began to die the passage to Heaven was opend and he began to call for His maker.
Another interpretation for this scene was that Oswald felt the darkness swelling inside him as the light of his life was exiting. Ironically, the sun outside was finally rising as his soul was diminishing.
Our group also discussed the possibility that a suspicious relationship occurred between Mrs. Alving and Manders. We concluded that there was no sexual relationship, but that perhaps Mrs. Alving sought comfort from Manders
On Friday, we (group one) discussed Iben's use of the pipe. We decided the pipe definately represented something about Oswald's relationship with his father, but to what capacity we were unsure. We also discussed the motif of alcohol, and explored the ramifications of every sexual relationship in the play. We found the majority of the conflict between characters was a result of one character having sex with another. Finally, we discussed who the protagonist and antagonist are in Ghosts, but reached no conclusion.
Katie Heideman
In group two we talked about what the sea and sailors represent. We noticed how every time Engstrand talks about his sea house he is lying or manipulating someone.
We also noticed how Engstrand almost started a fire before the real one, which leads us to beleive that he started the actual one.
Tables and chairs represent stability and there are a lot around and mentioned in the play, but at te same time there was wine around which breaks down that stability in the home, which shows the false sense of stability in the Alving home.
We also noticed how hard Manders in on women more then men. He would blame women for all their faults, but dismiss the men of theirs.
we came to the conclusion that both Manders and Engtrand are erally the bad characters in the play- that they both confuse people and have inworthy motives.
Post a Comment